I hear of those who didnt leave until 9:00 that night. I am here at the opportunity on a couple of occasions to speak to the Fire Chief of Ontario Michigan. Excellent points, Jody. Crews working a Gatlinburg structure fire that began early Sunday morning discovered a body. Our place was gone. We had somewhat of a plan but both agreed that if we had a warning or concern we would leave because of our location and our neighborhood has no fire hydrants. They got info from NPS about the fire spreading. By being so quick to lynch people we have created a fear of decision-making and a paralysis of critical thinking. That didnt happen here. Why hasnt the NPS mentioned this first fire of the 14th? The wind remained at moderate strength on Wednesday with gusts decreasing from 37 at 3 a.m. to the lower teens by the end of the day. I dont have the statistics to prove what you wrote is incorrect, but I am convinced that it is not a fact to say most of the fires that are monitored (as opposed to fully suppressed) escape outside the agencys borders. 10/10/22, 1:56 p.m. The GSMNP PR person announced at 2:02 pm that fires were expected to grow over the next 8 hours with wind gust of 85 mph. Its all in moderately dense forest that overhangs above the road. We have also come upon many campfires that tent campers and others thought or extinguished but were back to a full burn with not adequate fire breaking around it. My prayers are with all of you. It is a sad state of affairs, the loss of life was quite avoidable. It was so blatant and irresponsible of the media station to broadcast in this manner especially under the current circumstances. Some of those GSMNP personnel were trained out west and know how fast a wildfire spreads in high winds. My nightmare depicted more what happened in Gatlinburg than so far in Branson. A spokesperson for the city said the Gatlinburg Fire Department was dispatched to the 700 block of Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg at 6:39 a.m. on October 9. Interesting time line, fire discovered about 1730 November 23. Who is watching the back door? 6 to the intersection at Reagen Drive reopened Monday afternoon after being closed Sunday morning, according to a release. From an all hazards POV large scale fire should have been recognized long before any drought conditions. You are among several Gatlinburg residents that posted local officials told them that everything was OK as late as 5:30 and there was no evacuation notice. Flies north of fire (s) in TN. Since November 29 it has rained about every 2 to 3 daysin the Gatlinburg area. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. They felt this was an attempt to start a forest fire and it was reported to officials. I have been on both sides of that equation before and still real-ling from my own losses that will negatively affect me and my family for life, because no one took the time to question or look into the story presented to them by those authorities in charge. We were there from May until early November. Unusually dry conditions in eastern Tennessee spurred a ban on fires in the national park on Nov. 15. Yet no one made a move. Had this fire+wind storm happened 3-4 weeks earlier it would have been exponentially worse, lots to be thankful for as we morn with TN. On November 27 the fire was a third of a mileas the crow flies from US Highway 441. We watched the news the rest of evening. Lots of fires getting controlled, crews pulling off and the new fuel falling and all back ablaze. I responded that the climate is changing, and so are other related situations, and there will be. I know as I have been there many times due to security interests. When did Gatlinburg burn . Waited a month to report this event and turn over the pictures they took to forestry officials! Even this article seems to skirt around some of the issues and miss the depth of analysis it needs to effect meaningful change. Of course they wont. Your are correct; and we all pray and hope for the community to get back on their feet again. I am in my late 60s and have never seen such a drought, or such low stream levels. there is still a nagging question regarding the use of BACKFIRE on the part of the NPS and the Gatlinburg Fires? Then, a few days later they had the full timeline article and info about the NPS not following its own protocols. This was part of our retirement plan and now all we have left is a lot, we lost a lot of money that we will never be able to recuperate. We may never really know the truth about this situation just as with so many other current and prominent situations. It is truly appreciated. For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. There are A lot of cheap seats in the arena filled with people who never venture onto the floor. What did City officials not understand about the approaching danger? The fire continued to spread throughout the entire structure. Brian Blanco/Getty. Shelter locations could have been announced, especially encouraging people to take action during the daylight hours that day so that escaping in total darkness during an inferno of fire or not having the means to do so would not be forced on people, and they could make arrangements for their own safety. Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces, after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. What caused the fire in the Smoky Mountains? I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. Not because I am a teller of fortune. I can hear it now, hasnt the NPS learned anything in the past 10-20 yrs? We are emotional beings, we feel and we have the capability to think. The official cause is down power lines due to high winds and fallen trees, according to a National Park Service news release. We could see the smoke. A true lackadaisical response. The smoke steadily became thicker as the days passed and friends were showing pictures of the Chimneys on fire. Those with information are urged to contact the Tennessee Arson Hotline at 1-800-762-3017 or the GFD at 865-436-5112. Lets say the NPS put a crew on it day one in steep inaccessible terrain as they say it was in. Even though I am located adjacent to the National Forest lands on 3 sides, I cannot invite them onto my property to help me lessen the fuel load proximal to my home. I look forward to seeing the report when it comes out. This rain took much of the heat out of the vegetation fire and slowed the spread, but smoke from the burning structures in the communities and smouldering logs in the Park continued to fill the air. All my constructive criticisms are not targeted to Park personnel in general. His parents died in the fire in Gatlinburg . Our house sat below the road about 30 feet. Perhaps a simple thing like calling for a Voluntary Evacuation from Noon on that day could have made the danger more obvious in light of the forecast for storm warnings with high winds for the afternoon and overnight. Like hell he did. They were flying water drops on Sunday with the equipment available (National Guard choppers). I have been walking the woods around Gatlinburg a lot since the Fire. This is the path to healing, and the way to light. Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, Gatlinburg Fire Department and Gatlinburg Police Department officials are investigating. In late 2016, wildfires . Thanksgiving Day Global Supertanker 747 is responding to wild fires in Israel. I hope to remedy that starting now! Ive learned so much on this blog over the past 6 weeks about how forest fires are managed and fought and Im most grateful for that. Not even 5 years ago over 60 homes burned in one night in Wears Valley when fire spread from house to house, in the fall, during a high wind. Thanks again for this forum. GSMNP Facebook has pulled comments, photos, and replies as well in regard to the 14th fire. This story Im telling is all factual you see I have a problem with anyone exaggerating events as well as lying so I tell the truth regardless of how unpopular it may be. A fire burning under those conditions would likely burn more intensely, have a rate of spread faster than normal, and have more resistance to control. 1,000 feet of rise / 0.2 mile (1,056 feet) is a slope of 94.7%, not 77%. But outright blame? You cannot predict an outcome of fight first and fast any better than you did letting thousands of property burn and 15 people die. Many times this tactic takes commitment of over a week. Triage of resource needs versus values at risk, firefighter safety, resource values and political realities all come into play. Mitchell, Mt. Who allowed this to happen? That said, it is always easier for those outside of the forest to see the big picture then those who are standing inside the trees down on the forest floor. One indicator of drought and its effect on how wildfires burn is the Keetch-Byram Drought Index(KBDI). I can tell you that within the week prior to this fire in the Greenbriar section of the GSMNP, I hiked on trails rustling through leaf litter that came up to my mid shins. Travelers are urged to avoid the area at this time. The actual clifts are small and easily avoided. I went back a few years ago and it was completely different. I was in my cabin the night of the fire and if I had spotted it a minute or so after I did I would not be alive to type this right now. I agree that there needs to to be a change of attitude about climate change, wildfire potential in the east, an adaptation to changing conditions and a throwing out of the holding on to the been there done that, know all there is to know, seen this before thinking and the holding onto a world that used to be. On November 11 some hikers found a fire built in the middle of the trail on brushy mountain trail. Im surprised Cherokee Orchard Rd. Take care and hang in there. It caused a shutdown . notice should have been at 5-6 given the wind. The high winds were forecasted on the 25th, 2016. The contractor who had been working outside on the house left as it got dark early because of the smoke. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process. Then and only then will He let you effectively manage His creation that He has allowed you to be a part of for a short time. Monday I was surprised to look at the Knoxville News and see nothing about evacuation notices. In addition thorough explanations could have been given for the reasons for calling for the Voluntary Evacuation and could have been published. Frankly people should lose their jobs and fault should be placed on their shoulders. I think the point is that IMT managed wildfires in the southeast had residents in pre-evac mode when high winds were forecast before each cold front passed. Thats why I refused to use a local contractor. I think were all just going to come back and rebuild stronger than ever, he said. When I came out of dr. office, which is located on Middle Creek close to hospital, the atmosphere was eerie. At the official Gatlinburg weather station recognized by the NWS 0.73 inch was recorded on Tuesday. Who was responsible for Gatlinburg fire? Excellent report Dr. Gabbert. I could not figure how to put pictures on Wildfire Today, so here are links to let you see whats happened in the Park. Henry, do you know the effect of the typical southeastern forest ground fires on the hemlock adelgid? from Gburg. The fire ballooned to more than 17,000 acres when winds stronger than 80 miles per hour carried the fire down the mountain and through Gatlinburg and parts of Pigeon Forge Nov. 28. Much of the southeastern United States had been suffering extremely dry conditions for two to three months. After working full time in wildland fire for 33 years, he continues to learn, and strives to be a Student of Fire. GFD officials examined the scene and found a body, later identified as Joe Martin Bates, in Suite 4. The cause of the fire remains under investigation by the GFD, Gatlinburg Police Department and the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. The governors promised investigation has yet to appear (if it ever will), but the National Parks investigation is proceeding and no locals are on that team. Rain began falling late Monday night and continued until 6 a.m. Tuesday, totaling 0.78 inch at Indian Grave. I said Fed. We stopped beside the truck and rolled down our window. The fire burned 38,000 acres of state managed conservation areas and private timber lands. 865-637-2442. For example politicians far away from the event make decisions regarding funding, resources and operations. That is when it would have been prudent to announce a pre-evacuation notice for the Gatlinburg area to be ready to evacuate if an evacuation order is announced. With that all happening before lunch. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. They had their moment in history and did not rise to it. The truck was filled with firefighters. The chain reaction that if un-inhibited can create the perfect storm, block the perfect solutions or that can lead to the ignition of possibility and opportunity. This is what happened with a handful of officials/personnel regarding the fatal 2000 black bear mauling of a woman hiker in Elkmont. When we got to the bottom of the mountain, we ran into the Sevier County Electric crew where the road was blocked. I told him to go up and park in driveway close to where I wanted to leave the truck and that I would drive truck up. Their inter-agency investigation needs to look at the 1st Chimney Tops Fire of the 12/13th to the 17th of November 2016. Contractor will be on site this weekend with a subcontractor cleaning up my debris and really pouring my foundation and my logs will arrive within 15 days or more . From my back ground in fire, safety and as a fire investigator I see the development of a chain of multiple, unusual and totally unexpected events leading up to final blowup. Ive posted this type of questioning on other Wildfire Today articles. It was as if time had passed with no motivational disaster to spur this awareness, at least not in my local community. There is much to delve into in resolving the causative factors of this disaster and the fire and park service are only a part of that equation. The next morning, the morning of 28th, I took boys to school and went to a dr. appointment in Sevierville. What makes one golden and one not? Officials said three people were found dead from fires in the Chalet Village area, and one person was discovered dead near a motel on Highway 321. That evening, GSM park officials tweeted that a 1.5 acre fire (Chimney Tops 2 fire) was burning in a steep location around the Chimneys. We had hiked to the Chimneys for the view many times it was easy to see the wind being funneled down from there to Gatlinburg just like an invisible whitewater river. U.S. Park Service (again) and Thanksgiving. and see if he could get any information. The report concluded that the fire was an accident; however, officials said the investigation was limited because the building was not structurally sound. if/when evacuation notice was given. Will there be an independent, non-federal agency, through,unbiased, unedited final incident management and serious accident investigation? GRSM firefighters spotted the new fire as they returned from responding to a report of a vehicle fire. Citing the steep terrain and the safety of firefighters, fire managers at Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) decided not to take direct action on the fire which would entail constructing fireline along the edge of the fire to remove the fuel that allows it to spread. Forecasts were issued each day from November 24 through 27; we could not find one for November 28 the day the fire burned into Gatlinburg. But the condition of the fuel was also important since it happenedduring what the National Weather Service (NWS) calls exceptional drought conditions. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another.. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway,. Climate change, human, social, political and economic factors are all also a part of this outcome, cause and effect. Apparently, when the second fire was started by the defendants on the 23rd, the NPS assumed they could handle the 23rd fire like they did the first fire of the 14th. At the big forest fires in NC and GA, where the federal incident management teams were located, the Incident teams ordered pre-evacuation prior to the arrival of a cold front when strong, gusty winds were forecast. At this time, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation officials were contacted, according to the report. Officials will verify renters and lease holders, as needed. I spent two weeks in the area after the fire to inspect my property and ascertain where my wife and I would go from there. Yes government at all levels needs to be held accountable; otherwise we regress back into the Dark Ages. Given the wind forecast, pre-evac notice should have gone out on Sunday, Monday morning at latest. This lack of serious response is all too obvious. Every business downtown was closed except for Bubba Gumps. The fire did not get up the valley to the Alum Cave Parking Lot, and LeConte Lodge is fine. There will be time to consider legal and civil options later . Thats totally untrue. There are many many folks who even if cell service were functional could not afford it. Nearby businesses feel the same. From what I understand, the adelgid spreads from tree to tree via the ground, which is why young hemlocks with smooth bark are rarely infested with adelgid. of them backing up and saying this isnt our problem we are carrying on just like always. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. I have an Gatlinburg address but the county services my street. The facts are clear that this was not the appropriate action taking during the initial stages of the Chimney Top 2 wildfire. Behind the Chimneys is Sugarland Mountain. There are thousands and thousands of people who feel as I do about your loss and the losses of so many people in Gatlinburg and the surrounding area. To echo your statements, the information is out there, a model exists on how to properly do it now its getting the proper training for all of the professionals involved and the public taking the role of accountability watchdogs. The report said the fire was an accident and caused around $7 million in damages. They are having a press conference this afternoon so perhaps there will be more transparency. Like I said this is like so many tragic events, a chain reaction of events that all contributed to a disastrous outcome, because of actions and inactions that were not questioned or corrected at many steps of the way. Good points about differentiating between prescribed fire and the wildfire. Out east our experience is usually ground fire with relatively less risk of widespread destruction. I am a property owner in the Lake of the Ozarks, in Missouri, and oddly enough, had just returned from a trip to Branson, Missouri. Officials say the road will be closed for an extended period. It took the governor to get the lack of evac into the open, as local gov was trying to keep it out of the press. I hounded the Knox News editor for a followup article around Dec. 19. Well said, the terrain here is different than a lot of places, even out west. It was hard to drive because of falling leaves, branches, smoke, wind, and nerves. I learned that it is extremely difficult to manage, rather than suppress, a wildland fire for an extended period of time. Still cant seem to get any answers if the BACKFIRES got out of control when the NPS ignited them contributing to the loss of life and structures in Gatlinburg??? At about 5:20 p.m. the fire was discoverednear the top of a steep hill called Chimney Tops not far from where another fire occurred about a week before. In all the Disasters I have worked in Texas, FEMA reimburse City or County for debris pickup. He and the other NPS staff there regularly went on out of state assignments. Our local congressional representative will be the first to confront the Park Service for numerous shortfalls, bias agendas that cater to special interest groups, and a host of other issues to where the NPS serves itself more so than the people. Jeannines comments were spot on. The notice went out to people within 10 miles of the fireline. I dont understand, but I dont judge. Authorities have not identified the victim or . The amount of dead Frazier fir and Spruce trees, caused by similar non-native infestation, is dramatic on Newfound Gap road, but mainly past The Chimneys at higher elevations. Case in point, the wildfires in Florida 1998, in which those experts were unaware of or underestimated the burning intensity of the Palm Oils from the Florida flora, which were as flammable liquid fires during those wildfires. This leads to continuation of the same issues over and over because the root of the problems are not being dealt with, and therefore it is just a matter of time before another failure occurs and someone else becomes the blamed one, totally ignoring the real issues. A friend that owns a rental company there said that about 90% of the homes in the area which leave them 10% they can rent or sale. Very good pictures! Collaboration, open thinking and creativeness are key. That said, we are now in the rebuild mode. Their are undoubtedly many many causative factors for any disaster, even the actions, inactions and unintentional actions can be like a snowball rolling down a mountain of snow! If the NPS backfires were not ignited on the 28th; then they had to be ignited on the 27th a day before the fire broke out. True, our firefighters and 1st responders put their lives in harms way and we should respect them; and yet distinguish these folks from officials who are undoubtedly making bad calls/decisions. A lot of personnel put forth heroic efforts to save lives and we should all be grateful for that. I think wildland fire managers should be commended that this fire did not result in a tragic firefighter incident like Yarnell Hills. Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? He promised a committee to study what happened and there has been no word since. The winds were blowing from the Chimneys more down the mountain than up toward LeConte. Why the Monday morning quarterbacks seems to always get it right, while those in the game make the errors and the scores, winning and losing. Lastly, I would after this last election year never ever put stake into social media as any sort of official news, witness accounts or other fact finding mission. She saw a fire and called 911. I get free speech, but if I yelled fire in a crowded theater when there was none and it contributed to death and injury I too would be held liable; my speech would not be protected! After the fact they called in helicopters to dump water on the fire which is what they should have done in the first place and didnt, WHY NOT? Almost every creek drainage in GSMNP has stands of dead hemlocks (though some areas near roads had some hemlocks treated regularly to prevent adelgid infestation). Teddy Roosevelt, who as you may know, was instrumental in establishing our national parks. They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. time. Sitting in a Sevierville motel room for four days watching the fire chief, city mayor, city manager, and county mayor pat each other on the back for being Mountain Strong sickened me. We have border issues, at the local levels, states rights and federal rights that are still at issue, leadership silos, and rising political issues. There was a yellow glow in the skies which has always been indicative of severe weather where we came from. Being asleep at the wheel is no excuse. Investigators have determined that the fire was human-caused and are asking for information from anyone who has information about people or vehicles that were seen in the area that day. He asked them if they could give us an update on the fire and they said no. . Resident of Western Maryland. The one thing I noticed over the fall was that the National Forest Service held themselves accountable, called in Incident Management Teams from all over the country with big wildfire experience and those teams got it done. I can feel for the service providers and the devastated fire victims. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? But I believe there is a fourth element of fire behavior prediction and that is the element of situational awareness. Thanks for the correction Bill. It is my understanding this first fire was at or near the summit in the immediate vicinity of the 2nd fire which unfortunately devastated Gatlinburg. My husband stopped the car and the two men inside identified themselves as city water department employees. The Gatlinburg ByPass is also closed. Maybe a second year of drought? Many structures were lost- thankfully no lives. My wife and I hiked to Alum Cave Bluffs Saturday, Nov. 26, while the fire was small up on the Chimneys. Due to the damage this fire has caused Im sure there will be follow-up effects (and recriminations) for years. We were there on Thanksgiving week-end. Jim Renfro, the air quality specialist for GRSM, said the strongest wind gust recorded at Cove Mountain was 87 mph at 9 p.m. on Monday. The main road out of Gatlinburg is the Spur, which is the 5 mile stretch of Park Service Road that lies between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. We had no significant rain in 2 months!!! I appreciate how articulately you described your thoughts. Finally, the Superintendent has the power to call up all the resources which were available. View all posts by Bill Gabbert. From 7 p.m. until midnight sustained winds were at 13 to 17 mph with gusts from 34 to 49. Until you sit in my seat after 20 years of fire service, making decisions on where to send your firefighters based on their experience levels, you will then realize decisions have trade offs and sometimes Mother Nature over rules you. The fire could have been stopped over the weekend if proper procedures had been followed. At 10AM we drove to Sevierville to buy more materials (to eventually add to the bonfire). The successes, and the losses, the poor decisions, the mistakes, the error and the failures. Published: Nov. 30, 2016, 8:41 p.m. Dry conditions and high winds caused a wildfire on Chimney Tops Trail in the Great Smoky Mountains to spread quickly . I only lost my house, but someone has to speak the truth about what did/didnt happen that day/night. God doesnt cut financial budgets. The report stated the demolition was requested due to the health and safety of the citizens and visitors in the event of a full structure collapse.. I wish this would turn into the biggest Court case in history. He also raked as many leaves as he could from around our cabin. .. bless you all! The only way they will learn from the fire is if they have to face a jury of their peers to account for their ineptness even know they were in charge of protecting us and our homes and they did neither. I was on the Party Rock fire in NC and our IMET was predicting that storm event 3-4 days before it happened. It would appear that in the end it comes down to lack of adequate training, lack of adequate rehearsals (shouldnt they have known how to get messages out to the public via cell phone? That would mean your timeline of the last water drop would possibly vary 15-45 minutes depending on the helibase location and flight time to the dipsite. I may be alone in thinking that, but I do think the Feds would stand up to local influence. We were wearing bandanas wrapped around our faces at this point. The fire season last year set new records in the state for the expansive area that burned, with more than 4.2m acres (1.7m hectares) scorched by more than 9,900 fires across California. Stanton wanted to go but I was afraid to for several reasons. For the most current information about the Chimney Tops 2 Fire at Gatlinburg, see our articles tagged Chimney 2 Fire. Hello Jon, for what its worth, I did some hiking in the Greenbrier area of the GSMNP back in October and didnt notice many dead hemlocks, although The Chimneys area may be different, which I havent hiked in years. Would be interesting to dig down to find the ash line (which is probably illegal on federal lands). I appreciate that fine quality of writing that expresses your thoughts in an easy to read yet structured style that makes sense. I seriously question if bias will be discreetly worked into this agency and their review of the fire?? As a mountain boy who loves the harshest terrain even I couldnt imagine trying to run a fire line in this area. The fire was approximately 8 acres in size, according to GRSM. Instead, the city ordered evacuation of the neighborhoods nearest the NPS day use area that was on fire (Mynatt Park and others). Deciding to keep air resources in reserve for initial attack on new starts rather than wash the fire off chimney tops was a good decision. This is a developing story. In turn, the IMT teams greatly appreciated the community support given by the effected areas, such as throwing a free Thanksgiving dinner for the thousands of fire fighters far away from their families. etc. My vacation cabin in Gatlinburg burn to the ground on November 28. When the Chimney Tops 2 Fire burned into Gatlinburg on November 28, 2016 and destroyed thosestructures it was drivenprimarily by weather specifically, very strong winds. At 2 a.m. Monday the wind speeds recorded at Indian Grave began increasing and the direction became more consistently out of the south and southwest. One thing I have learned is that the news media, especially in todays world is just as skilled and often benefits from pushing their own agendas as well.
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