- Spamming airintakes didn't help. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Will post my results. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. Welcome to the forums. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. its rather flat but its a solid surface. 3.) I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. Challenges Paste as plain text instead, KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. You could try combining the two. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. With only panthers unlocked I might add. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. But a rockets can do it. They will someday, but they don't now. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun June 3, 2022 . 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). Pasted as rich text. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. Don't worry about Isp. AoA and G-force moderation. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. I followed a similar strategy. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? i recently used a single whiplash plane and was able to maintain a stable 21-22k meter altitude. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Press J to jump to the feed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. You cannot paste images directly. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. : : . Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. edited 6 yr. ago. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Have you checked out the wiki yet? Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Hello there. Yes. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. And it's stock, unfortunately. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. You can post now and register later. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. This is my current best hi alt plane. This thread is quite old. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. even stranger is that the surface is textured. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. 2.) "Whiplash" Turbojet. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Very cool. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Thanks. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. Sideslip handling. Valve Corporation. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Yes. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. rev2023.3.3.43278. Isn't that backwards snark? As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. Proceed with caution. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. surface of jool. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. But maybe your patience? It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! This is the first version. This thread is quite old. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. Powered by Invision Community. Pasted as rich text. So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. So Pvt. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). It was meant for low altitude flight. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Paste as plain text instead, At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Is it even possible? I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. - Insane TWR didn't help. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. and our alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. What altitude and speed should I go? - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. Thanks for the help! If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. You can post now and register later. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. . I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Evidence. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. 1.) I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. Main goals: Auto-trimming. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? That will unlock: Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Upload or insert images from URL. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. You cannot paste images directly. Planes in Space. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble.