Rick van de Poll: 80 90. And you know all that. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Well within there. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Give today. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. 1,470 likes. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Seems reasonable! Patrick Tate: Okay. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. If so that's for us as an agency. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Share. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. John thanks. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Infinite Scroll Enabled. I'm Peter Biello. Really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. Caller: I have yeah. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. So do they. Good morning guys. On a dirt road. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. I don't know if she still is. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Sam Evans Brown. Right. Thanks very much. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. They were able to do all that by genetics. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. Do they travel. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. You need a permit to have that. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Think you've seen a mountain lion? The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Chartered: 1973 . Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Yes and you want to share what you learned. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. Less successful males roam further. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. We're not in the woods. I found a second scat scent both to him. Mountain lions live in the state. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Think you've seen a mountain lion. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. They don't know the direction they're going. So let's let's go to the phones. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Really appreciate it. So now what's going on. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. There are corollaries in other states. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Is that typically what was happening there. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. They're just moving around freely. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. David Erler says some of them probably have. These were normal everyday folks. So take care of this problem. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Have a photo. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. Have it reported down in the Keene area. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. There was no sign of it. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. New Hampshire Public Radio | So. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Mike you're on the air. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Pelosi story here we go. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. Administrative Links. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. I can't. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Let's look for other evidence. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Thanks for your call. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Right. He said matter of fact I do. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. What kind of animal is that. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. I mean they're a survivor. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. I'm Peter B yellow. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. We want answers. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Rick your thoughts. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Caller: Hi. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Yeah I did. Yes. So that did it for me. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . And they were using all the habitat. We had six copies printed out each. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Well they are the same. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Caller: Oh yeah. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? "Of those three to five reports,. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Select image for larger view. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Part II. I have one that's more elaborate than that. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. That's pretty elaborate. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Well let's talk a little bit about that. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Thank you very much for listening. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. And the cougar embodies that. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. Here it is. Can you look into this picture. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Patrick Tate: Yes. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 Let us know your story and share your photos! Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Mountain lion or cat running across. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. What's going on. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. It was not a bobcat. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. But no proof was offered. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Can we go to the site. Tim Yeah. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium.